Interview: Pelosi’s genius is in making history but not telling all

But the very traits that served her so well as speaker make Pelosi a tough nut to crack in an interview when it comes to discussing recent events.

Biden’s Exit

Sitting down with a small group of journalists in Washington on the rollout of her memoir, Pelosi declined to discuss what she told President Joe Biden about getting out of the 2024 race, whether she spoke to him in person or even how many times she spoke to him. She does categorically deny reports that, wanting to challenge polling information being provided by senior campaign adviser Mike Donilon, she told Biden, “Put Donilon on the phone.” In the interview, Pelosi said she thought Donilon was a speechwriter.

She acknowledged that she told members to hold comments regarding Biden, after his disastrous June 27 debate, until the NATO summit in early July was over. However, Pelosi insisted that she never told members to go public with their concerns, although she did tell them to directly talk to Biden. She even denied that her now famous July 10 interview on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” (“It’s up to the president to decide if he is going to run”) was a deliberate attempt to reopen discussion about Biden’s leaving the race.

Pelosi described the comment as “spontaneous,” but acknowledged that some responded to it by saying, as she put it, “Oh, my God, you gave us space, you gave us space.” And she conceded Biden may think that the “statement unleashed something.” Yet, who believes that the greatest political tactician of our era was a bystander to the most shocking presidential campaign episode in memory?

She insisted that she just wanted the Biden team to run a better campaign. “We did not have a campaign that was on the path to victory,” she said. “They did not … do a good job putting him forth.”

Regarding the debate debacle, Pelosi faulted advisers for overpreparing Biden. The formula for debate success, she said, is “a clear mind” — “do not bog yourself down with stuff” — and “rest up.” Attending a debate watch party, Pelosi recalled, she knew “right away there was something disconcerting or concerning.” She said she was shocked by the difference between Biden’s performance at the State of the Union earlier in the year and at the debate, but said she doesn’t know if there had been some intervening health issue.

Speaking about her deep affection for Biden, whom she has known for 40 years, Pelosi noted their similarities — both hailing from tough cities, both Catholic. “I love him so much, I lose sleep over it,” she said. And yet, Pelosi also said the two have not spoken since Biden announced that he was dropping out of the race.

As for how Democrats should approach the fall election, she said it won’t be enough to run on the Biden administration’s record alone. “I think elections are about the future,” Pelosi said. “We did this so you can see we can get it done. But this is what we are going to do … It is ‘What have you done for me lately?’”

I pressed her on how she can still work with Republicans, many of whom contributed to the election denial furor that lead to Jan. 6 or mocked the near-fatal attack on her husband. “It is very different than when I first came to Congress. There are some I do work with,” she said. As she does in the memoir, she reiterated that legislating is akin to using a “kaleidoscope,” with a series of ever-changing coalitions. When I pressed, she said, “This is my motto … treat everyone as your friend but know who your friends are.”

She was blunt that Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) lied when he accused her of delaying the National Guard on Jan. 6. As for claims by Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) that Pelosi was slow in delivering the articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump over the insurrection, she said bluntly, “He’s lying. We were totally ready,” she said. “So shameful. It’s really a disgrace. … Unpatriotic.” McConnell’s machinations meant Republicans had an excuse, that Trump was no longer president, to acquit.

She begins her book by quoting civil rights leader and longtime House member John Lewis, who died in 2020, that “there’s a spark of divinity in every person.” Asked if she has seen such a spark in Trump, she said, without missing a beat, “I pray for him.” She is determined to defeat the former president. “We have to defeat him because he is not consistent with our democratic principles,” she declared, before rattling off the list of policy horrors that would befall the country (e.g., repealing the ACA) if he were elected. She pulled no punches about Trump’s pandemic response: “Tens of thousands of people died because of his delay and denial.”

Pelosi’s memoir

In “The Art of Power,” Pelosi offers a juicy behind-the-scenes look at some seminal events in her speakership, including the race to save the economy during the 2008 financial crash with the Troubled Asset Relief Program legislation. She blames Republicans for failing to supply the promised votes to make TARP bipartisan; it was that, and not passage of the ACA, that cost Democrats the House in the 2010 midterms, she said. Reactions to TARP spawned both the Occupy Wall Street and tea party movements, Pelosi said, setting Democrats up for a bruising defeat.

Both in conversation and in her book, Pelosi’s love of legislating is obvious. She regales readers (and reporters interviewing her) with the ins and outs of passing the ACA and getting TARP over the finish line. She praises former president Barack Obama for his “vision” and leadership on ACA, but leaves no doubt it was she, the House appropriators and chairs — and to some extent Harry M. Reid, then-Senate majority leader — who handled the details and dealt with individual members’ concerns.

Her accounting of the Iraq War is damning. With extensive knowledge of intelligence matters in her House service, she writes that she recognized from the get-go that the “intelligence does not support the threat” of weapons of mass destruction. “Ultimately, it is my belief that the failures that lead to 9/11 were organizational and unintentional. But the intelligence failures that led to the Iraq invasion were bureaucratic and deliberate.” While failure to “connect the dots” left the United States vulnerable to the 9/11 attacks, she writes “In the case of Iraq, there was a concerted effort to ignore (and even withhold) inconvenient analysis and to artificially inflate or elevate intelligences that supported the invasion.” Still, she refused to vote in favor of cutting off funding for the war, seeing that as a failure to stand behind the troops.

Her voice comes through clearly in the memoir. No wonder: She wrote it herself, she said, using a ghost writer simply to organize or cut repetition. No one can mistake Pelosi’s blunt voice, undiluted exasperation (with White House occupants, Republicans and corporate interests) and biting wit — or her sincere idealism, delight in moving the levers of power and affection for “my members,” as she still calls her fellow Democrats.

For lovers of politics, the book will be catnip; for those of us awed by her political prowess, it is confirmation that no modern figure has practiced the art of power so effectively.